Author Topic: Virginity and childbearing age  (Read 351932 times)

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regista

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Virginity and childbearing age
« on: June 24, 2014, 07:03:45 PM »
Last year. I had wiggled my way into one of those "I fucking love Atheism" closed groups on Facebook so that I might profit some silent laughs for myself and my other friends at their ease to offense, their obnoxiousness, and their (unexpected) unflinching progressive orthodoxy.

Once during an ostensibly more serious thread concerning views on sexuality and virginality someone had started, I found myself the lone star arguing that not only is virginity preferable, that "a woman's psyche and sexual desirability deteriorates with every prick that gets shoved into her" and other such statements that I found to be mostly or somewhat true, but mostly I saw the outrage value in them.

The pushback in this 10,000-member group came from dozens of otherwise intelligent postmoderns. This had been the season for those red gay equal sign profile photos, so I was having a real time of it keeping up with the replies. It rained down claims that I had clinical control issues for demanding any prospective wife of mine be a virgin, claims of "oh my god, nobody's a virgin anymore," and the inexplicable "don't you want a woman with some experience?" (As if genitals are like plane controls!)

After long enough in this thread of several hundred comments, it had been reduced to accusations of religious extremism ("how can you call yourself an Atheist if you're not a sexual basket case?"), and, more importantly, quibbling over how many partners removed from virginity a woman would have to be for you to turn her down if she was otherwise attractive. (I was holding fast to zero; others were not, as you will soon read).

We move now to a seemingly smart, well-adjusted family woman in her early forties, name of "Erica," at that point in the discussion the most articulate and willing to engage among my Puritan anti-Puritan detractors.

Going on the assumption that I was 40 (interestingly, I am half that age) she posed to me this blunt question (emphasis mine):

"Say you meet a stunning woman.
She's a redhead, or whatever color hair you might happen to like.
She's beautiful, friendly, intelligent, easy to get along with, a smart dresser, and sufficiently taller/shorter than you (whichever you prefer).
She's happy with life, and, it seems, with you, and comes from a good family that likes you too. She's a skilled professional in her line of work, and she has a job where she actually does something useful.

She's just turned 30 years old.
Even more hypothetically, say you get some sort of magical catalog of her history of sexual activity.

It reveals that she's taken (read: SHAGGED) 2 lovers a year every year since her 18th birthday.

I can't imagine you're so ready to cling to virginity that you'd turn a woman like that down for her past 'transgressions,' yes?"

...
Struck speechless.
I got myself up from the computer and took the walk outside I had postponed.
I kept doing that math over and over again in my head, and I kept coming up with 24.

24?
Really?
Is that the condition of modern women?
Was she aware that countries send 23 players each to represent them at the World Cup????

"So you're not a virgin, eh? Can you give me an idea of how many, at least?"
"Oh hahaha, no big figure, just ARGENTINA. SHOULDN'T BE A BIG DEAL FOR YOU."

Asked her if that's what she really meant, and accidentally admitted my age in the response;
she softened up and assured me that I "still had time to learn about these things."

The end.
I nearly suffered an aneurysm that day, but here I stand before you in 2014 to tell my tale.

regista

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2014, 07:07:02 PM »
Relevant: the woman I am currently keen on is not a virgin.

She was a faithful partner to her previous boyfriend for a number of years, and had semiregular sex with him, starting with the surrender of virginity at 16.

I guess I'm not a hardliner like I'd like to be.

1983

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2014, 10:17:24 PM »
A woman beyond the healthy breeding age, and 30 is most certainly beyond that, is worthless as a romantic partner regardless of how many other men have fucked her.

Don't fault yourself for not being with a virgin.  You're young enough to find one with some difficulty, but it becomes exponentially difficult once you get older. 

A virgin is preferred, but given circumstances of this age, virtually impossible to find.

regista

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 03:24:19 PM »
30 is worthless?
Interesting.
I couldn't tell you a single thing about biological clocks or the best time to marry a woman.

Most of the people in my generation, including me, were born to mothers in their early and mid-thirties, though I can't say we turned out so crackingly well.

If 30 is too late, then it's less wonder that the age of earliest legal marriage was 12 in a place as near to us as Chaucer's England.

Huh.

1983

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2014, 12:40:45 AM »
Risk of genetic abnormality goes up with the mother's age, as do all sorts of other complications.

A 30 year old woman is trash.  Especially a modern 30 year old woman.  How many cocks do you think she's had?  Easily triple digits.

Jackal

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2014, 03:44:36 AM »
virginity is a great place to go, but unless shes 19 or younger the virginity is a sign of some mental issues with socialization.

in a better time it would be the focus but you're trying to find the best mother for future children. I don't think you need to go 100% hard line in all cases. Mayme a girl who has had 2 steady boyfriends and abhors casual sex might work, depending on other screening factors.

Cohiba

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 03:51:05 AM »
A 30 year old woman is trash.  Especially a modern 30 year old woman.  How many cocks do you think she's had?  Easily triple digits.

That's the thing. Even the prettiest woman's looks fade, beginning at 35. For most women, with all the drinking, it gets noticeable before that. Your average female loses her virginity between 15-18, and even the awkward nerds have had at least 3 men by the age of 21. Women these days are taking a huge risk in thinking they can settle down with a quality man in their early thirties. No man with any dignity would surrender his remaining  years to a woman like that.

Simir

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2014, 11:15:22 AM »
According to zoologist Desmond Morris the best age for a female to give birth is at around age 22. For what its worth male fertility also peaks early, in the mid teens at around age 14, though it doesn't significantly drop off a few years later after peaking, the way female fertility does. As such females do not care as much about the age of a mate, unless he looks very young (pre-teens are infertile) or too old (girls don't swoon over bald old billionaires, although they would provide security.)

I remember when over on iSteve, an American blog I don't usually read, he started a thread about teen mothers. The conclusions reached by his readers were that a woman's body is best able to bear kids as early as she can give birth, and the age of first time motherhood doesn't have an affect how the kids turn out.

Exilarch

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 07:29:52 PM »
For my views on this topic, see "Why Social Conservatism?" on Amerika.

vir

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 09:25:24 AM »
A small contrary viewpoint:

Smarter women tend to lose virginity later (18-19) and have fewer sexual partners.

The reason is that they are not ruled by their gonads like people with less upstairs.

If you find one who has a reasonable sexual history and is a good person, go for it. This is an evil time and most are lost in evil ways passed on to them by their oblivious parents, media and friends.

I don't think age matters. I've known a number of women who have birthed children in 30s, 40s and even 50s without problem.

Remember, statistics try to make a universal out of varied human facts. People who are impoverished, unhealthy and not that bright will screw up anything but teen pregnancy. The rules are different for others.

1983

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2014, 11:27:11 AM »
I don't think age matters. I've known a number of women who have birthed children in 30s, 40s and even 50s without problem.

Even if this is biologically possible, and when a woman is in her late 30s and onwards, it is virtually impossible without the aid of medical science, there are more problems to this than just the risk of having a mentally or physically malformed baby.  A woman being 40-50 years older than her own child is a social problem as well.

Simir

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2014, 12:13:35 PM »
Aristotle though he was pro-life by our standards favoured abortions for women over 40. The Greeks were aware that late motherhood brings problems.

No fertility treatments for the over 30s.

vir

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Re: Storytime for a minute. Bear with me.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 09:19:37 AM »
I don't think there should be fertility treatments at all. If people cannot have a baby by natural means, forget it. If the baby needs more than basic preemie care, forget it.

Bruce Charlton had a great article on this:

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2014/06/dysgenics-is-mostly-due-to-reduced.html

Although he changed the blog to some orange sherbert holocaust color scheme.

I have known a number of women who've kicked out kids in their 40s and 50s just fine. It depends on who your ancestors were. The more northern you get, the more this is possible.

Also consider that statistics group everyone together and make a generic assessment that misses the differences. For sub-Saharan Africans, waiting until age 35 is not a good idea. That is why one government for Europeans and Africans fails, because it tries to make a rule that fits both and as a result screws both parties.

GaiaWasAFeminist

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Re: Virginity and childbearing age
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2014, 02:35:09 PM »
1. I am currently going through fertility treatments with my wife who is 7 years my senior.

For various personal reasons, I've taken exception to the age gap... but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone in normal circumstances.


2. On the topic of the OP, if I could do it over again (I'm in my late 20's) I would look for an 18-21 year old. Preferably a girl who was very family-oriented, frugal, and wanted to have children soon. Since my career is stable, we could have several kids (3 preferably), and after they are of school age, she would go to college then.

Unless you can swing one income, then she should stay home.

But, it's a great scenario because you lock down a rare, family-oriented woman before she goes to college and gets exposed to the drinking/drugs/sex culture that exists there.

The dating scene is shocking these days. I haven't been single for about 3 years, but towards the end it was shockingly easy to sleep with young women early-on. Things are really bad. Good women are hard, hard, hard to find.

xcarlx

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Re: Virginity and childbearing age
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2014, 03:35:11 PM »
Idealistically speaking, men shouldn't marry until they're at least 30 years old, own land, and have established themselves financially. Women should become available to marry between 16-18 years old, under their father and mother's declaration within organized social settings. Both should remain chaste until marriage, and should not have children until they're married.

Realistically, the 15 year rut of late teens through twenties is soul-crushing and has contributed to the most moral decay over anything else. I'd sooner see people avoid hook-ups, and the one-off chance that a relationship will last more than a year in favor of seeking steadiness and humility in partners.